tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5004730508631468243.post8550655617171596830..comments2024-03-23T10:20:15.689+00:00Comments on Léargas: THE TWELFTH.Máirtín Ó Muilleoirhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/15088662505129211196noreply@blogger.comBlogger13125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5004730508631468243.post-22336387128004924012009-08-08T20:51:26.939+01:002009-08-08T20:51:26.939+01:00Is not the Orange tradition broader than the OO? ...Is not the Orange tradition broader than the OO? What room in the nationalist view is made for the Protestants of Northern Ireland to be proud of their specific tradition, also in contrast to the nationalist one, but without actual bigotry or accusations thereof? <br />To some extent the survival and prospering of Protestantism and relative liberalism in Europe with the consequence of enlightenment and progress was dependent on the victories of William and his allies (incl of course the Pope - allies of convenience with various interests have always existed) over the absolutist and persecuting Catholic Louis. William's victory ultimately brought more suffering to the Catholic Irish, BUT he was in a broader sense on the right side in a pan European politico-national and British ideological struggle and the United Irishmen certainly did not disavow this Orange heritage. <br />Can Orange bigotry be challenged on the basis of the virtue in its own tradition and, equally, can nationalists see that virtue? Can nationalists accept the fact that the Catholic Irish, seeking only or in the first instance at least, and, ofcourse, understandably to secure their own welfare in their own land, were nevertheless the allies of a tyrant, or at least the allies of an ally of a tyrant. I respect the memory of King Billy as that of a figure who fought a tyrant in a worthy cause. I regret the outcome for the Catholic Irish, though Billy himself was not directly responsible. <br />I hope that nationalists can think about the threads which link the victories of physical force political Protestantism, which were in the main defensive, to the survival of an environemnt where the enlightenment values of the United Irishmen could take hold. <br />Why ALLOW the 12th to be about bigotry?Unknownhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01231537351632805832noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5004730508631468243.post-54013100851464921382009-08-03T11:44:03.448+01:002009-08-03T11:44:03.448+01:00The way forward in my opion, is to draw attention ...The way forward in my opion, is to draw attention to the orange order and the British State. We have to remove the respectability attached to sectarianism. The first step, must be to stop the 12 and 13 of July being a paid public holiday This is not acceptable in the 21st centuary. This case must be taken to the Human Rights Courts in StrasburgAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5004730508631468243.post-73646091692411974902009-07-25T20:47:13.312+01:002009-07-25T20:47:13.312+01:00Ireland was too often the meat in a sandwich of co...Ireland was too often the meat in a sandwich of competing interests -British colonial interest, either for avarice or security, Spanish Catholic interest as a way of underming Protestant England and of course thereafter the Dutch republic and any other pesky prods, King Louis's interest in putting a Roman Catholic but more importantly compliant JAmes II back on the throne. <br />The British put the Orange boot on the Fenian neck, while others would have used Ireland to put their boot on the English and Protestant neck. <br />Pity the poor irish in the middle.Unknownhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01231537351632805832noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5004730508631468243.post-3547856860423335482009-07-15T23:07:27.489+01:002009-07-15T23:07:27.489+01:00excellent blog by the way... i feel i need help i ...excellent blog by the way... i feel i need help i really don't like the 12th..any ideas on why i feel this wayAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5004730508631468243.post-33921841184333938402009-07-14T00:44:58.408+01:002009-07-14T00:44:58.408+01:00Gerry. I'm a committed protestant Christian l...Gerry. I'm a committed protestant Christian living in Sydney Australia. My father was born in Dublin, now living in Australia. I'm very proud of my Irish heritage. But I am incredibly embarrassed by so-called Protestant marchers. You are so right when you say that this practice has nothing to do with religion. No genuine Bible believing Christian would have anything to do with it. It's high time the practice was either updated or dropped. It does nothing but provoke violence and it would be better if Protestant Christians tried to find some better way of celebrating their heritage that focussed on bringing the Belfast community together.John Ryannoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5004730508631468243.post-75118972523958691732009-07-12T15:24:10.188+01:002009-07-12T15:24:10.188+01:00Thanks for the history lesson Gerry.
I'll try ...Thanks for the history lesson Gerry.<br />I'll try to erase the viual of Gerry Admans singing the sash.<br />I will also refrain from using words of old less I sound sectarian.<br />I have witnessed many of these "Marches" in my time and again, for reasons stated, I reserve comment.<br />Instead I will tell a wee story:<br /><br />When I was about 9 years old, and was inside the chapel as the "Band" was halted outside banging the big drum. The priest told us to stay inside till it passed.<br />He then said "Pray for them" my brother replied "I'm not praying for THEM" The priest then gave us a piece of chocolate and said "Well then pray for me, and stay inside"<br /><br />That event was about power too, as it remains today. So I will think chocolate.......and pray for the safety of people today.<br /><br /><br />Ta ar la anois <br /><br />KateKatehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07298431689847348822noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5004730508631468243.post-56975215600297901452009-07-12T13:14:49.259+01:002009-07-12T13:14:49.259+01:00You're right, Gerry; no matter where you are i...You're right, Gerry; no matter where you are in the world, all this racism, sectarianism, whatever you call is, is all about power. Whether is Hutus and Tutsis or Protestants and Catholics, the conflict has been originally set up by the powerful to divide and conquer. If the human race would ever figure that one out, it would be all over for imperialism in every form.Linda Colemannoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5004730508631468243.post-3499745687342752232009-07-12T04:55:09.466+01:002009-07-12T04:55:09.466+01:00Orangism is, like contemporary christianity, in my...Orangism is, like contemporary christianity, in my view, a big male ego trip and that's why there's so much violence and sectarianism associated with it. The last gasp desperate attempt to rescue a deflating ego and wrest some pretention of control over the created god.<br /><br />I think the orange community in the North of Ireland were just ordinary Irish people, duped by British imperialists whose agenda was to divide and rule, ensuring there would be only one real state power in these islands. They were used by the Tories of the 19th and 20th century. <br /><br />Many people were duped. Everyone gets fooled at some stage in their life. We all make mistakes. History is always exactly as it was. <br /><br />The green, white and orange flag of the Irish Republic stands for the inclusion of all the Irish people as equals. Ulster orangemen and dizzy loyalists too. <br /><br />Republicanism is the hallmark of the true protestant faith, "a living political ideology based firmly on principles and always open to refinement, re-appraisal and self-criticism."* <br /><br />*(paraphrasing content of G.Adams, Bodenstown address 1983.taken from "Sinn Fein, A Century of Struggle p.187)Michealhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02310793974335095318noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5004730508631468243.post-79694638784235230652009-07-12T01:14:11.839+01:002009-07-12T01:14:11.839+01:00A good attempt to hide the underlaying prejudice b...A good attempt to hide the underlaying prejudice but ultimately it emerged. What you fail to comprehend is that to the unionist community the Twelfth is a community festival where people come together and have a bit of craic.<br /><br />The way some nationalists have demonised the Twelfth as a sectarian festival will be the ultimate flaw in their peace strategy. Sinn Fein in particular have created a beast they can no longer control with the parades issue, and it will be their undoing when dissidents take up the same strategy and replace Sinn Fein on the streets.<br /><br />A little bit of tolerance goes a long way!David Thompsonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09768963830382018510noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5004730508631468243.post-20983062043243693272009-07-11T18:55:07.393+01:002009-07-11T18:55:07.393+01:00I also have a love of fork music Gerry. Literary i...I also have a love of fork music Gerry. Literary interest in the popular ballad was not new,English Elizabethan and Stuart composers had often evolved their music from folk themes."folk" coincided with an "outburst of national feeling all over Europe. Folk Music it is a cultural processes rather than abstract musical types.Music can tell a story and give us a living tradition in the efforts. Like any fire in fact or heart it must have some controls the tendency to become a wildfire and disrupt and not light is just a disturbance.Timothy Doughertynoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5004730508631468243.post-13446504920053933492009-07-11T15:31:44.687+01:002009-07-11T15:31:44.687+01:00Hi Gerry Maybe when I stop to see you and Richard ...Hi Gerry Maybe when I stop to see you and Richard this month you could sing me a few bars of Fenian Record Player,one of my favorites. ASee you soon. E.FEd Feighannoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5004730508631468243.post-67101754610059241402009-07-10T22:32:23.916+01:002009-07-10T22:32:23.916+01:00Gerry.Yes I used to sing the Sash
but as you say t...Gerry.Yes I used to sing the Sash<br />but as you say the 12th was something else, I re-call Orangemen or some of them not speaking to my father for 2 weeks,because of the 12th.and then they used to come to him as he was the local Shop Steward looking for things to brought up @ the next Union meeting in Belfast, where he attended on the 1st Monday of each Month for over 25 yrs. How they and still do used to march up the streets of Newcastle in Co Down and how they used stop outside the Local Pub, Church and give their Lambegs a good "Diggin",Such hatred of us Taigs. it was bred into them. I recall the comments of our President a few years ago and she was right, but people took it the wrong way I knew what she meant.Any Thankfully they won't be getting away with that nonsense anymore.Their day has gone.<br /><br />BY the way , I read Toiréasa Ferris today and what a breadth of fresh air. Now if you applied her methods, then the Party would grow and the votes would come. A party of Community attivists, re call the writtings of the Prisoners during the 70s&80's they wanted the same and they were right.Paul Dorannoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5004730508631468243.post-88917305359487764032009-07-10T16:40:57.097+01:002009-07-10T16:40:57.097+01:00submitted by Kathy Collins
Gerry,
it may be about...submitted by Kathy Collins<br /><br />Gerry,<br />it may be about power...stupid...but it is also about HATE. You have used my line that the orange order is like the KKK....for many years espically way back in 97 when the line got you alot of press. <br /><br />In the United States people stand up to the KKK and call it what it is...a hate organization... How the US broke the power of the KKK was to go after their money and ownership of their physical buildings-- lodges--halls.<br /><br />There is legislation in the EU that can label an organziation as a hate group...and that is what the orange order is. You have you refused to walk down that road?<br /><br />Kathy CollinsAnonymousnoreply@blogger.com